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PDF-ShellTools => General => Topic started by: curtwpk on January 02, 2013, 08:31:53 PM

Title: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 02, 2013, 08:31:53 PM
Windows 7



I installed PDF-ShellTools trial version today.   Looks good.  I can edit metadata and see it displayed on the WExplorer columns.

BUT I cannot search based on keywords (tags).  The tags are there.  They display.  But Search wont find them.

I have already reset Indexing.

How can I make Search find files based on pdf metadata content ? ?

THANKS ! !
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 02, 2013, 11:24:03 PM
By the way....
Yes... the folder I am searching IS listed in the included files/folders for SEARCH.

-curt
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 03, 2013, 01:28:29 AM
Win7 32 or 64-bit?
Just in case, I tested right now the latest trial version (2.0.1) in a Vista 32-bit, Win7 64-bit and Win8 64-bit PCs, and it's indexing just fine.
Check if the SYSTEM account has read access to these files, under the file properties security settings (1 in the attached screenshot).
Check also if your PDFs, under the file advanced properties, have the option "Allow this file to have contents indexed in addition to file properties" checked (2 in the attached screenshot).
What are your index settings for the PDF file type under the indexer advanced options (3 in the attached screenshot)?
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 03, 2013, 03:09:21 PM
Thanks for the response!

I have win 7 home premium 32bit  (see 1st screen shot)

Going through your suggestions, I cant find anything wrong.  I have not changed anything.

I see there is no "SECURITY" user with permissions.   But none of the files have that.

Maybe these screen shots will allow you to point me in the right direction?
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 03, 2013, 05:11:44 PM
I made one change.  I added "SYSTEM" to the list of users for the folder I am indexing and testing.
It made no difference.  I still cannot search for keywords on .pdf files in this folder.
See screenshot.
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 03, 2013, 06:06:55 PM
Instead of adding the SYSTEM account manually, from the Advanced Security Settings, click the change permissions button and check the "include inheritable permissions from this object's parent" option for each of the folders, beginning at "C:\CURTFILES", and then "C:\CURTFILES\.Indexed Files".
Not sure if needed, but I also have the "Administrators" account included, so after setting the inheritance for "C:\CURTFILES", check if that account is included too, and if not add it manually, before setting the inheritance to the "C:\CURTFILES\.Indexed Files". After, check if the PDFs contained in that folder have also the inheritance set.
Your last screenshot is for a .doc file, but I suppose it is the same for the PDFs?

Quote
I still cannot search for keywords on .pdf files in this folder.
It's working in other folders?
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 03, 2013, 06:42:48 PM
I'll check out what you say.  In the meantime..

Yes, the .pdf files are the same as the .doc files.  Took a picture of the wrong one. ;D

When I look at the files subordinate to my master folder( ".indexed Files" ) , they all show that they inherited security from the folder.

I am experimenting with only one Indexed folder for now.   I cannot search Tags on .pdf files - no matter what folder they are in.
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 03, 2013, 07:41:20 PM
Frustrating... but I must make this work   :P

I think everything is set as you say.  I have screen shots to show the current state.
The first shot shows the files in /.Indexed Files  .  There is a mix of pdf and .doc.  You can see how they are TAGged.

The second shot shows the SEARCH.  It picks up the .doc file - but not the .pdf files.

The other shots show how inheritance is set.

I DID rebuild the Index.
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 03, 2013, 07:42:04 PM
Two more pictures
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 04, 2013, 01:34:35 AM
That "PDF Professional Filter" reference on the last screenshot is being provided by what software? What PDF IFilter you have installed? Is it working, and you are able to find the PDFs searching for words in the content?
Have you tried to change to the "Index Properties Only" option?

Try this MS Fix It (http://support.microsoft.com/mats/windows_search/en-us) tool.

You may also take a look to the Windows event log to see if there are related errors that may shed some light on the issue.

I've now also tested the last trial version in a Windows 7 32-bit machine, and "no problemo".
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 04, 2013, 05:07:55 PM
I dont know where "pdf professional filter" came from.  Maybe when I was trolling for solutions on the Adobe site ?

I'll see if I can get rid of it.

If I change to  "Index Properties Only" I thought I would loose the access to TAGs?

I'll try some things you suggest. 

Fingers crossed.   I really want this to work.  We are trying to organize thousands of files of many different TYPEs on dozens of computers and your's looks like the most promissing solution to the .pdf problem.   Just gotta get over this hump.

Thanks for sticking with me here....
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 04, 2013, 05:18:00 PM
Here is where Adobe iFilter comes from:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4025&promoid=DTEHN (http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=4025&promoid=DTEHN)
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 04, 2013, 05:55:47 PM
PROGRESS ! !

1.  I uninstalled Adobe reader and re-installed it from their web site.  That seemed to have gotten rid of the Professional Filter thing.  I have some memory that I may have used an Adobe tool enable their owne PDF iFilter?

2.  Then I changed the FILE TYPE indexing Method to "file properties only".   That AUTOmatically changed the Description from "PDF Filter" to "File Properties Filter".

The second step appears not to be necessary. I went back and tried both options (file properties only - and- file properties and contents).  They both seem to work ok.

So the culprit appears to be an iFilter that got installed somehow.  Probably the "built-in" PDF-iFilter that comes inside Adobe Reader.

I think this works now.  Whew !

I will buy a copy this morning and do some more testing on our bigger project.

T H A N K S  !

see attachments
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 04, 2013, 08:24:26 PM
If I change to  "Index Properties Only" I thought I would loose the access to TAGs?
That option makes the indexer to only gather metadata properties (title, subject, author, tags, etc.), using a property handler, such as the one in PDF-ShellTools. The other option uses the property handler to index metadata properties, and an IFilter to index the text content. In older Windows versions the IFilter was used to index metadata too.

Here is where Adobe iFilter comes from:
That links to the 64-bit version of the IFilter. Newest versions of Acrobat and Acrobat Reader include a 32-bit IFilter, so you only need to install that one if you have a 64-bit Windows.
Probably your installed IFilter was the older version, that Adobe provided as standalone.

2.  Then I changed the FILE TYPE indexing Method to "file properties only".   That AUTOmatically changed the Description from "PDF Filter" to "File Properties Filter".

The second step appears not to be necessary. I went back and tried both options (file properties only - and- file properties and contents).  They both seem to work ok.

So the culprit appears to be an iFilter that got installed somehow.  Probably the "built-in" PDF-iFilter that comes inside Adobe Reader.

I think this works now.  Whew !
Excellent! Probably an older version of the PDF IFilter was the real culprit. My suggestion to change to "file properties only" was to test that possibility, as the IFilter included in the new Acrobat and Acrobat Reader versions works fine.

Indexing the content may be important or not. It depends on your PDFs management needs, but if metadata properties are enough, disabling the content indexation makes the background indexer process almost imperceptible. Not so when large PDFs content is being indexed.

Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 04, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
Thanks.  That all makes sense.

I have in fact checked "properties only " for the indexing since it is only the metadata that I want to organize on. 

I understand that I can however, search non-indexed files on whole content if I have the patience.  I wonder how to do a non-indexed search on CONTENT if the files are set up as Indexed-properties only ? ?  I'll work on that.

Anyway... for the future I guess you now know to tell folks to re-install Adobe if they have index problems with PDF-ShellTools  :)   Thanks for your patience and expertise.   Your noticing that "Professional PDF Filter" is what made the bells go off for me. 

Thanks Rui,
Curt
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 10, 2013, 11:05:07 PM
I can make indexing on work  .pdf files by disabling the Adobe FLASH add-on.

But... I need the flash add-on.  It is used all over the place.

So I down-loaded the very latest FLASH player, enabled it as an add-on.   You guessed it... I can no longer search on .pdf TAGS.    :(

It would appear that PDF_Shell Tools are not compatible with FLASH Player?   Is that right?  Can you solve something here ? ?
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 11, 2013, 12:10:15 AM
I suppose you are talking about the Adobe Flash Player add-on for Internet Explorer?
If yes, then I tested it just now. Downloaded and installed the latest Flash Player for IE in a Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit, and I have no problems searching for already indexed, or newly edited, tags, or any other PDF related metadata property. So, it should be something else.
Did you installed any extra software shipped in the flash player installer?
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 11, 2013, 12:39:42 AM
Thanks!  That made me keep digging.  And I think I have it solved.

Here is what I found.... The incompatible item is the  "PDF Professional Filter"
It gets set when one chooses to index "File Properties and Contents".
That filter prevents capturing TAGS etc where they can be used by PDF-ShellTools.

I was fooled into thinking it was the Flash player because when I loaded a new Flash Player, indexing stopped working ! ! !
It turns out that installing FLASH went in and changed my setting back to "File Properties and Contents".  That of course, reset the Filter.

I did not reset the filter.  I assume it was done by the FLASH installer, but you seem not to have had that problem.

Now I have FLASH running OK with IE9
PDF-ShellTools DOES pick up the TAGs and allows me to search on them. :D :D

Ugh!
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 11, 2013, 12:52:31 AM
What I have in that Indexer Advanced Options, File Types Tab, for the PDF file type is "PDF Filter", not "PDF Professional Filter". The IFilter I have is installed with the Adobe Acrobat Reader, and works fine with the PDF-ShellTools Property Handler, if the option is set to "File Properties and Contents". You need to get rid of that not so "Professional" IFilter :)
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 11, 2013, 01:52:37 AM
Yes.  I understand that.

I left one item set to "properties and Contents" only to illustrate the difference for taking the Screen Shot.  I am setting everything to Properties Only.

I do think there is no way to do Properties AND CONTENTS and still have PDF-ShellTools work.  That is not a problem for me, though.  It would be nice some day to have a fix for that.  Perhaps it will come from Adobe ?

Your comment about "professional" filter is not lost on me.   ;)   The name is pretty ironic isn't it ?

Anyway... I am running blissfully.   :D

Thanks for your responsive and helpful help !
-c
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 11, 2013, 02:15:56 AM
Maybe I explained it bad. I have set it to "File Properties and Contents", and all works fine.
If you want to index contents too, maybe you need to uninstall that IFilter named "PDF Professional Filter" (or fix the registry, if not installed anymore), and then install Acrobat again to get the new one, that shows as "PDF Filter". Probably the Acrobat installer don't install the new IFilter because you have another one already installed?
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: curtwpk on January 11, 2013, 03:33:19 PM
That would be nice to have the CONTENTS indexing working as well.

I have no idea of how to get rid of the "Professional Filter" and make Windows point instead to the normal ifilter.

I have re-installed Reader and Flash player several times.  That had no effect on Professional iFilter.
Title: Re: Win 7 Explorer - SEARCH will not find metadata.
Post by: RTT on January 11, 2013, 03:51:00 PM
If you do a web search for "PDF Professional Filter", results point to a PDF IFilter from Scansoft PDF Products from Nuance Communications, Inc., implemented in a pdfprofilter.dll.

And at this address (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa965717(v=vs.85).aspx#filters_registration_model) you can check how IFilters are registered in the Windows registry, so you can follow these keys and discover where it is installed. If not installed anymore, delete these keys, just in case the Adobe Acrobat installer uses them to decide if the Acrobat IFilter should be registered or not.